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Tôt ou tard is 5
The French label celebrates its 5th spring
Paris
19/06/2001 -
"We're only five years into the project," declares Vincent Frèrebeau, "so that means we're still a very young label!" With only ten artists on their books and in no rush to sign up more just to make up numbers, Tôt ou Tard are a label who believe in doing things on a small scale, but doing them with love and perfection. Like vintage wine or traditional cuisine, the Tôt ou Tard philosophy revolves around giving things time to mature. Frèrebeau also believes in favouring committed songwriters and strong personalities over easy commercial options. Besides Thomas Fersen, Lhasa, les Têtes Raides and Franck Monnet, Frèrebeau has also signed newcomers François Audrain and Lisa Barel and musical eccentrics such as Joseph Racaille. Then, of course, there are legendary French chanson giants like Jacques Higelin and Dick Annegarn.
Before establishing himself as a dynamic young artistic director then head of production at WEA, Frèrebeau trod the boards as a musician himself, playing drums, piano and guitar. His passion for music and his expert knowledge of the workings of the record industry eventually led him away from the commercial hype of show-bizz to pursue a more personal vision :
Vincent Frèrebeau: Basically, Tôt ou Tard came about because I felt I needed a change of job. I'd been at WEA for quite a while by then and I felt like I was just stuck doing the same old thing all the time. I'd had this project in the back of my mind for a while and I felt the time had come to act on it. Technically, what I wanted was to get together a team of people who all believed in the same thing. I wanted to take a very specific approach and work with a very specific category of recording artists, finding a method of working that would be perfectly adapted to their own personal universe.
And wouldn't it have been possible to work on such a project within the framework of a major record label?
Well, the thing with a major label is, once you've actually finished the production work and the album's been released, you've got to let go of your 'baby' and hand it over to someone else. You relinquish all control over a record once it's been released. But the way I see it, the person responsible for the artistic direction of an album should also take charge of the marketing side of things too. Obviously, you have to have a competent team behind you to do that. You have to know the artist and his/her universe inside out and realise what s/he is capable of. So, no, in answer to your question, I could never envisage working the way I wanted to at Warner.
The other thing I really wanted was to build up a back catalogue with a strong identity. And that was never really a possibility at a big multi-national label like Warner, which has to appeal to as many people as possible. The thing is, building up a strong identity is a process which can take years! I'm talking about getting to the stage where the media are interested in a record because it's come out on a particular label and not another. The next stage, of course, is getting the public to go out and buy a record just because it's come out on your label – that takes even longer! Actually, to celebrate our 5th anniversary we're planning to carry out a special marketing operation in the stores and then we'll see just how readily identifiable Tôt ou Tard really is. It will be funny to see the reality of it. Most people don't take much notice of what label records come out on. It only matters to music buffs and label aficionados.
Isn't the idea of building up a catalogue a bit old-fashioned?
Yes, it is in a way, but you have to remember that that's how record companies get to enjoy periods of plain sailing. They make all their cash from their back catalogue, bringing out endless re(releases and compilations. For us, though, the idea's related to the great record labels of the past who built up catalogues out of a real passion, without even realising they were doing it half the time. Without wishing to make any comparisons here, what I'm talking about are labels like Motown, Atlantic and Stax. Each of those labels had its own really strong identity. I remember when I was a kid I'd rush out and buy a record just because it'd come out on Motown!
Do you see yourself as a 'discoverer' of new talent, a bit like Jacques Canetti was in his day?
I'd love to be like that! The great thing is, we're living in such a fertile era for new music talent. There's so much going on right now. I think the record industry's fallow period – which I'd say lasted from the early 80s to around '95 – are behind us now.
It's true, you can't help thinking of all those legendary star-makers of the past, people like Gainsbourg's artistic director Claude Dejaque and Canetti who 'discovered' Brassens, Brel and Barbara. But times were different then. True, on the one hand you had all those great artistic directors and managers with a vision, but there was also a lot of serious money around. There's still a lot of money tied up in the record industry these days, of course, but it's distributed differently.
Back in those days labels could afford to release stack loads of albums and every now and then you'd find this real gem at the bottom of the pile. But these days our budget doesn't stretch to releasing more than two albums a year by new artists – and even that's a lot! We just can't stretch to any more than that. You need such a huge budget to get one new album off the ground that it's just not possible to sign 10 or 15 new artists a year!
The story of Tôt ou Tard really began with Thomas Fersen, didn't it?
Yes. In fact, my own personal story began with him too. Before I even ended up working at Warner, Thomas and I were close friends and when he launched his career I became his manager. When I went for the job interview at Warner, that was one of the key parts of our negotiations – I wanted to get Thomas signed to Warner as part of the deal. He was completely unknown at the time. Straight after that, when I'd got the job, I signed Les Têtes Raides, a group I didn't know at all. And Thomas and Les Têtes Raides were both there when I decided to start up my own label. Thomas's contract was simply moved from Warner to Tôt ou Tard and Les Têtes Raides signed a new deal. With Les Têtes Raides, it's a question of winning them round each time – nothing's ever simple and straightforward with them!
Not all the recording artists released on Tôt ou Tard are French. Does that mean that in your eyes Tôt ou Tard is a "chanson" label and not a "French chanson" label?
Yes, absolutely. I've always been a bit irritated by the way people tend to use the word "chanson" – it's become stuck in a real pigeon-hole. But "chanson" is actually a very broad category. I'd say it includes everything from Charles Trenet to Motörhead! So, no, in answer to your question, I don't hold with the term "French chanson" at all. 
So does that mean you'd be prepared to sign a rock group?
Well, in my eyes, that's exactly what Les Têtes Raides are! … But yes, sure, I'd sign up a rock band if I liked their music. I'd jump for joy! It's not like I'm a chanson militant or anything – in fact, I hate the very idea of that! The way I see it, there's no need for people to go round waging battle on behalf of French chanson. If the music's good people will buy it. I don't want to get stuck in some old-fashioned militant ideology where you have to promote something just because it's French and it's chanson.
There are two real French music veterans on Tôt ou Tard: Jacques Higelin and Dick Annegarn. How did you come to sign them?
With Higelin it was just a matter of coincidence really. I'd crossed his path plenty of times, but then we ended up staying in the same family guesthouse when we were on holiday in Martinique. It was the most extraordinary coincidence when you think about it. We really got to know each other in the course of that holiday and it felt almost natural that we should end up working together a year and a half later.*
Things were a lot more simple and straightforward with Dick. One day a friend called up and asked me to try and find out what had become of Dick Annegarn. I was immediately enthusiastic. I thought it was a brilliant idea and I set about doing everything I could to get in touch with him. At the time Dick was looking around – let's say in a very calm, laidback way – trying to find a new record deal. And I say in a 'calm, laidback' way because Dick's not the kind of guy who rings up his record company mates and goes hawking round a demo tape! He's more the sort to sit back and wait until one comes to him. Anyway, that's exactly what happened. We met up and, I have to admit, I really liked him from the word go. He's got a real personality!
Is there some kind of common denominator linking the artists on the label?
Yes, there certainly is! Musicians like Thomas, Dick, Les Têtes Raides, Higelin and Lhasa are artists who could perfectly well get on and have a career without us. They'd exist in their own right whether we were here or not – we're just accompanying them on their route. And the reason all the artists I've mentioned could survive without us perfectly well is because they've built up their reputation on the concert circuit. They're all committed live performers! I thoroughly enjoy each and every concert I go to. OK, we're obviously there beside them, helping them financially and occasionally chipping in the odd idea, but when it comes down to it, we're just standing by watching, a bit like tourists really.
The other common denominator linking all the artists on Tôt ou Tard is that they don't write rubbish … All the songwriters I've mentioned are so good at their profession that there's no way they can just disappear now. There are certain sectors of the music business, more light-weight sectors like "variété", for example, and it's easy for artists to disappear practically overnight. But the artists on our label have built up such a reputation for their live work that they can pack out concert halls with almost no publicity whatsoever. Take a group like Les Têtes Raides, for example, they sold a total of 12,400 tickets for eight shows in Paris. That's amazing, that's the equivalent of packing out Bercy stadium! And it's the same with Thomas Fersen. He played three sell-out concerts in Paris (at La Cigale, June 13th-16th) as a result of one single poster campaign!
Where does the name Tôt ou Tard (Sooner or Later) come from?
Higelin came up with it. He pulled it out of some lyrics he'd just written.
Does the name reflect your general philosophy on life? Are you someone who believes in taking your time?
Yes, I believe it's absolutely indispensable when you're working towards establishing a successful long-term career for someone. Obviously, these days time equals money so taking your time requires huge cash injections every now and then. But I'm lucky in that I've had people above me who've been really good to me and let me get on with doing what I wanted. It's amazing when you think of it, because Tôt ou Tard is finally starting to be viable. We're not actually making a profit yet, but if you look at things in today's world, being able to take this much time over things is a bet that's paid off. And I honestly don't see how I could have done what I've done anywhere else.
I notice you've recently taken the time to develop an Internet site …
Yes and I think it's brilliant. Although having said that I have to admit I don't really surf the Net a lot, so I don't really have much idea of what else is out there. But I have asked a lot of different people to visit the site and tell me what they think. We've had a lot of e-mails pouring in to our in-box too, although for the time being there's no system for our musicians to get back to people. Thomas hasn't even got a computer yet! …
I hear Tôt ou Tard is currently making inroads on the Japanese market. How did that happen?
Well, basically, someone from Warner Japan got excited about the catalogue we've got available on digipack and wanted to release it as a set. You can't turn down an offer like that, can you? Another of the reasons behind our success in Japan is that we've got this very competent girl in our office who looks after the export side of things and she's done a great job promoting our artists amongst her Japanese counterparts. We started off releasing exports in all the French–speaking countries and now, thanks to her, Tôt ou Tard records have started hitting record stores in Japan.
And what impact have Tôt ou Tard exports made in Japan to date?
We've sold between 2,000 and 3,000 per artist. That may not be enormous, but it's not a laughably small figure either! I'm very happy with how things are going in Japan, in fact. We're going over there in October to organise a special launch for the label – they're making a really big deal about it over there. We'll be taking part in a fashion show by Corinne Sarrut, a French designer who's really big in Japan. Thomas will be doing the soundtrack for the show. Japanese people think it's really chic and the other great thing about Thomas's music is that you've got all these very European-sounding instruments like the accordion and the violin. After that we'll be going on to take part in the Halou Festival which takes place around the same time in autumn. 
Tôt ou Tard may still be in its early years, but the label is in its musical prime, thanks to some astute signings by Frèrebeau. The young director has always believed in giving his musicians a long creative rein and worked hard towards establishing a spirit of true collaboration, as Grégoire, lead singer and saxophonist with Les Têtes Raides, confirms:
"The thing is, back in the days when Vincent started working with WEA the multi-nationals were raking in so much cash they preferred to invest money in producing records in France rather than pay tax on it. So, in a way, Vincent was responsible for setting up the first 'native production' department within an American multi-national. Before Vincent came along things had happened very differently. It was really just a case of importing foreign records and then having the marketing department at WEA take charge of promoting them."
"Vincent came on board with Thomas and shortly after that he came across us when we played a gig in Paris at Les Déchargeurs, a bar/club in Les Halles. We'd just been dropped by our previous record company, Fnac Musique/WMD, but we'd scraped together some of our own money and recorded material for our very first album, Les Oiseaux. Vincent really enjoyed the show and he came backstage afterwards and offered to produce our album. He bought the tape we'd made, went away and got it mixed, then brought it out on Tôt ou Tard. And we've worked with him ever since. For us, it's more a question of working with the right people, than signing ourselves over to a particular structure."
"If you take a look at the bands who are still going today, we're one of the few who've brought out all our albums on the same label. One thing's very clear in our relationship and that's that there's a lot of mutual understanding. Our main objective as a group is writing songs and recording music and so long as we're left to our own devices and we're given the means to record the way we want to record, then we've got no reason to be pissed off. Right from the first album we were given complete freedom to work the way we wanted, using our own methodology. There was a real feeling of exchange and that's something we respect, because you can never achieve anything without real exchange at some level. And you have to be able to trust one another, of course. But that's never been a problem with Tôt ou Tard. We're working together towards a common goal."
"I think it's been quite an exceptional experience really, on both sides. They've always been good at answering questions and allaying our doubts and fears. What we're interested in is really building something together and listening to each other's point of view. We try very hard not to be totally anti-capitalist about our way of working and the label tries very hard not to be totally capitalist. I think that over the years we've really got to know the people we're working with and that means we've got a better feeling for what they want. So I'd say it's been a unique experience really. There are very few groups or solo artists who put all their eggs in the same basket as far as distribution and production goes. As far as we're concerned, that's proof that there's something positive going on here. It's interesting to build on our common knowledge and work towards a real synergy. And, on the whole, we're really happy with – let's call it the 'exponential' way - things are going. We feel things are really moving in the right direction with Tôt ou Tard."
*Higelin's contract with Tôt ou Tard came to an end recently, but Vincent Frèrebeau does not rule out the idea that the pair will work together again in the future.
Catherine Pouplain - Pédron
Translation : Julie Street
10/06/2005 -
